Jury finds Wis. mother guilty in prayer death

[Caligula's Ghost]

WAUSAU, Wis. (AP) -- A jury Friday found a central Wisconsin mother guilty of killing her 11-year-old daughter by praying for her to heal instead of rushing her to the doctor.

A Marathon County jury deliberated about four hours before convicting Leilani Neumann, 41, of rural Weston, of second-degree reckless homicide. No sentencing date was set. Neumann remains free on bond.

"We have another shot on appeal," defense lawyer Gene Linehan said. "Obviously, there will be an appeal."

Neumann left the courtroom clutching her husband as her three other children, looking stunned, followed. She declined comment.

Neumann's daughter, Madeline, died of untreated diabetes March 23, 2008, surrounded by people praying for her. When she suddenly stopped breathing, her parents' business and Bible study partners finally called 911.

Prosecutors contend a reasonable parent would have known something was gravely wrong with Madeline and her mother recklessly killed her by ignoring obvious symptoms of how gravely ill she was. During closing arguments, Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad described Neumann as a religious zealot who let her daughter, known by the nickname Kara, die as a test of faith.

"Religious extremism can be dangerous," Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad said. "In this case, it was fatal. Basic medical care would have saved Kara's life - fluids and insulin. There was plenty of time to save Kara's life."

Linehan countered, saying Neumann didn't realize her daughter was so ill and did all she could do to help, in line with the family's belief in faith-healing.

He said Neumann was a devout Christian who prays about everything and took good care of her four children.

"Religious extremism is a Muslim terrorist," Linehan said. "They are saying these parents were so far off the scale that they murdered their child. The woman did everything she could to help her. That is the injustice in this case."

Neumann's stepfather, Brian Gordon of San Diego, said he was disappointed by the verdict and the jury was mistaken. He said his stepdaughter did nothing wrong in trusting in God to heal her daughter.

"We should have that right in this country," he said.

There will be a vigorous appeal and an investigation of possible prosecutorial misconduct, the stepfather said. "I don't care how far we have to carry this. There will be vindication and exoneration."

Gordon also said he was angered by Falstad's description of his family as religious extremists.

"We definitely are not terrorists," he said. "We are Bible-believing, God-believing, Holy Ghost-filled people who want to do right and be right."

Falstad declined to comment after the verdict because Madeline's father, Dale Neumann, 47, faces the same charge and is scheduled to stand trial in July.

Jurors also declined to talk with reporters.

Neumann showed no reaction when the verdict was read. Before the jury took the case, she and her husband clutched each other and silently prayed with another man. Then she went to each of her other children sitting on a front-row courtroom bench and kissed them on the cheek.

She faces up to 25 years in prison.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/storie ... 2-16-46-42

[curiosityandthecat]

They'll appeal.

It's sick.

[SSY]

Idiots, really, these people are fucking morons, it's disgusting that negligent, sanctimonius lunatics are given the care of children.

Linehan countered, saying Neumann didn't realize her daughter was so ill and did all she could do to help, in line with the family's belief in faith-healing.

She didn't do ANYTHING to help. Deep down she obviously knew praying was going to do diddly squat, because she called an ambulance after the death of her daughter. Why not keep praying for a resurection?

He said Neumann was a devout Christian who prays about everything and took good care of her four children.

[strike:2k2wu34n]Four[/strike:2k2wu34n]Three children I think he means.

Neumann's stepfather, Brian Gordon of San Diego, said he was disappointed by the verdict and the jury was mistaken. He said his stepdaughter did nothing wrong in trusting in God to heal her daughter.

"We should have that right in this country," he said.

Maybe the child also had a right to medical care? Shortsighted, ignorant fool.

he said. "We are Bible-believing, God-believing, Holy Ghost-filled people who want to do right and be right."

Try harder, murder is wrong even in your fairytales.

Neumann showed no reaction when the verdict was read. Before the jury took the case, she and her husband clutched each other and silently prayed with another man.

Prayer 0
Reality 2, and counting.
In case you can't tell, this has made me really ticked off. The worst part is, the other kids are probably terrified, and trying really hard to stay away from anything dangerous, I know I would be.

[curiosityandthecat]

Haha, they're still praying? Didn't they learn their lesson?  

[SektionTen]

Oh god. *smack*

For Jesus H. Christ's bloody soul, I think we have an honorable mention for a darwin award. It's a shame it wasn't her genes that got eliminated.

[VietnamVet-BRIGHT]

I've highlighted a few salient points in the article ... proves that Christianity continues to pose a clear and present danger to children ...

WAUSAU, Wis. (AP) -- A jury Friday found a central Wisconsin mother guilty of killing her 11-year-old daughter by praying for her to heal instead of rushing her to the doctor.

A Marathon County jury deliberated about four hours before convicting Leilani Neumann, 41, of rural Weston, of second-degree reckless homicide. No sentencing date was set. Neumann remains free on bond.

"We have another shot on appeal," defense lawyer Gene Linehan said. "Obviously, there will be an appeal."

Neumann left the courtroom clutching her husband as her three other children, looking stunned, followed. She declined comment.

Neumann's daughter, Madeline, died of untreated diabetes March 23, 2008, surrounded by people praying for her. When she suddenly stopped breathing, her parents' business and Bible study partners finally called 911.

Prosecutors contend a reasonable parent would have known something was gravely wrong with Madeline and her mother recklessly killed her by ignoring obvious symptoms of how gravely ill she was. During closing arguments, Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad described Neumann as a religious zealot who let her daughter, known by the nickname Kara, die as a test of faith.

"Religious extremism can be dangerous," Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad said. "In this case, it was fatal. Basic medical care would have saved Kara's life - fluids and insulin. There was plenty of time to save Kara's life."

Linehan countered, saying Neumann didn't realize her daughter was so ill and did all she could do to help, in line with the family's belief in faith-healing.

He said Neumann was a devout Christian who prays about everything and took good care of her four children.

"Religious extremism is a Muslim terrorist," Linehan said. "They are saying these parents were so far off the scale that they murdered their child. The woman did everything she could to help her. That is the injustice in this case."

Neumann's stepfather, Brian Gordon of San Diego, said he was disappointed by the verdict and the jury was mistaken. He said his stepdaughter did nothing wrong in trusting in God to heal her daughter.

"We should have that right in this country," he said.

There will be a vigorous appeal and an investigation of possible prosecutorial misconduct, the stepfather said. "I don't care how far we have to carry this. There will be vindication and exoneration."

Gordon also said he was angered by Falstad's description of his family as religious extremists.

"We definitely are not terrorists," he said. "We are Bible-believing, God-believing, Holy Ghost-filled people who want to do right and be right."

Falstad declined to comment after the verdict because Madeline's father, Dale Neumann, 47, faces the same charge and is scheduled to stand trial in July.

Jurors also declined to talk with reporters.

Neumann showed no reaction when the verdict was read. Before the jury took the case, she and her husband clutched each other and silently prayed with another man. Then she went to each of her other children sitting on a front-row courtroom bench and kissed them on the cheek.

She faces up to 25 years in prison.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/storie ... 2-16-46-42

[Heretical Rants]

Oh god. *smack*

For Jesus H. Christ's bloody soul, I think we have an honorable mention for a darwin award. It's a shame it wasn't her genes that got eliminated.

It was... and the Father's genes, too.

I think it should qualify.  Unfortunately, they could still make another kid.

[karadan]

"We definitely are not terrorists," he said. "We are Bible-believing, God-believing, Holy Ghost-filled people who want to do right and be right."

A contradiction in terms?

 

[JillSwift]

I don't think they should be considered criminally negligent. This is the cost of religious freedom.

Unless the case can be made that they knew (or intended) that their choice to pray over going and using modern medical science would kill the child, they were acting on their child's best interests within their belief structure. Faith healing is a long and well established belief withing the broad Christian framework, easily passing muster as an accepted religious belief.

I don't care to allow the slightest precedent for allowing government to pick and choose what constitutes a proper religious belief and what does not, within the context of a plural society. Meaning, so long as parents are granted the right to raise their children their way and hold responsibility for them, then the rest of society is forced to accept the consequences for the parents decisions so long as those decisions show the parents are meeting those responsibilities to the best of their beliefs and abilities. By contrast, those beliefs mean jack-all when someone they are not responsible for is in question - i.e. they have a duty to call an ambulance for an accident victim rather than pray for that victim.

Freedom is costly stuff.

[ryan-blues]

Perhaps they can appeal on mental health grounds; all the hallmarks of religious belief can be used- delusional, hallucinations, out-of-body experiences, cannibalism(eating the lords flesh), Narcissism (center of the universe).


Interestingly this quote from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_ill ... d_policies) shows the more common religious perceptions of such mental issues.

A study by Baylor University researchers found that clergy often deny or dismiss the existence of the mental illness. In a study published in Mental Health, Religion and Culture, researchers found that in a study of 293 Christian church members, more than 32 percent were told by their church pastor that they or their loved one did not really have a mental illness. The study found these church members were told the cause of their problem was solely spiritual in nature, such as a personal sin, lack of faith or demonic involvement. Baylor researchers also found that women were more likely than men to have their mental disorders dismissed by the church. All of the participants in both studies were previously diagnosed by a licensed mental health provider as having a serious mental illness, like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, prior to approaching their local church for assistance.[73]

[BadPoison]

Haha, they're still praying? Didn't they learn their lesson?  roflol That's fucking cold.

[curiosityandthecat]

Haha, they're still praying? Didn't they learn their lesson?  roflol That's fucking cold.

I just calls 'em like I sees 'em.  

[Jolly Sapper]

I don't think they should be considered criminally negligent. This is the cost of religious freedom.

Unless the case can be made that they knew (or intended) that their choice to pray over going and using modern medical science would kill the child, they were acting on their child's best interests within their belief structure. Faith healing is a long and well established belief withing the broad Christian framework, easily passing muster as an accepted religious belief.

I don't care to allow the slightest precedent for allowing government to pick and choose what constitutes a proper religious belief and what does not, within the context of a plural society. Meaning, so long as parents are granted the right to raise their children their way and hold responsibility for them, then the rest of society is forced to accept the consequences for the parents decisions so long as those decisions show the parents are meeting those responsibilities to the best of their beliefs and abilities. By contrast, those beliefs mean jack-all when someone they are not responsible for is in question - i.e. they have a duty to call an ambulance for an accident victim rather than pray for that victim.

Freedom is costly stuff.

But if you were to remove the "religious" component from this situation it would be criminal neglect.  

If the parents knew their kid was sick, and s/he stayed that way for a long time, and they didn't do anything but give their child aspirin or over the counter cough medicine as treatment until the kid died would this not be case of criminal neglect?

[Kylyssa]

Before deciding it's a parent's right to allow their child to die for religious reasons, take a moment to think about how much suffering is involved in such a death.  Not only was the child not given life saving care, she was given nothing for her comfort either.  She didn't just get sick one day and die the next, she was horribly ill and suffering for a long time.  Friends and family urged the family to seek medical care for the child.  

Some may say that it infringes on religious freedom to not allow parents to kill their children via medical neglect.  It's not allowable for people to kill their children due to other types of neglect for religious reasons.  If a person starves their child or leaves them exposed to the elements for religious reasons - the parent will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law with no special allowances for their religious beliefs.  Why should medical neglect specifically be allowed when other forms of neglect are not?

I think the time is (or should be) in the past when parents owned their children like property and had the power of life or death over them.  Once the child leaves the mother's body he or she has rights as a human being with the number one of those rights being life.

[Kylyssa]

I don't think they should be considered criminally negligent. This is the cost of religious freedom.

Unless the case can be made that they knew (or intended) that their choice to pray over going and using modern medical science would kill the child, they were acting on their child's best interests within their belief structure.

I would think that the numerous pleas of their family and friends to get the child medical help would make it impossible for the woman to be unaware that inaction would kill the child.  The only possible excuse would be insanity.  Only an insane person or a murderous person could allow their child to slowly and horribly die as family members plead for them to get the child medical help.